The Big interview by Maafanta, Darboe speaks

"Human beings are not like baskets that you can just grab and carry on your head. They must be willing to go along with you." - Ousainu Darboe- UDP
It has been almost three months since Maafanta is trying to get an interview with the UDP leader Mr. Ousainu Darboe and Halipha Sallah of the PDOIS. UDP is the biggest opposition party on the ground but weary Gambian opposition voters are still not happy that the opposition leaders cannot put their acts together and form a united front.Due to electricity problems in the Gambia they both complain, plus their hectic schedules, it took longer than expected as we try to find the big 'what 'and 'How 'of what is making the possibility of Gambian opposition parties comming together insurmountable.We posed almost identical questions to these leaders as Maafanta seeks some answers from Mr. Darboe to shed light on the matter and see if his response will make Gambian voters any hopeful.(Interview is conducted by Fatou Jaw Manneh ,maafanta.com)
Good afternoon Mr. Ousainu . UDP just held congress. You emerge again as the leader of the party. Are you surprised that you are still the party’s choice or were you certain that you will emerge as the UDP Leader?I went to the congress to render an account of my stewardship of the party for the past years. At the conclusion of reports and adoption of resolutions I stepped down as Secretary General and party leader; I and all other office holders left it to the delegates to elect the new leadership of the party including the position of party leader. I was not certain that I would be re- elected but I was also not surprised that I was re- elected because the factors that influenced the membership of the party in 1996 to select me as a leader still prevail. I accepted my re- election with humility and at the same time with gratitude to the congress delegates.After the UDP congress so what now? 2011 is here.2011 is just around the corner. This fact weighs heavily on the U.D.P. Our focus - both pre and post conference- is on effective mobilization of support. The strategy of 2011 will not be confined to only big rallies. We are encouraging electorates at both ward and village levels.2011 is decisive for the Gambia and the UDP is determined to do all that is necessary so that Jammeh’s administration is voted out of officeUDP is the biggest opposition political party on the ground as we speak, and your alliance with AHmat Bah of NRP will definitely boost your prospects regarding votes come 2011. But don’t you fear even with Ahmat‘s NRP you guys are likely lose to Jammeh especially with other parties contesting on the side too namely PDOIS and GMC?The U.D.P has never downplayed the role of an all opposition alliance to contest the next elections. The Gambian people are witnesses to the efforts by the U.D.P to create a formidable alliance that will contest against the incumbent. I am sure PDOIS and GMC also realize that there is a need for the opposition to form a united front. I hope that all parties will be able to come together and contest the next cycle of elections under one banner.”The Gambia people are witness to the efforts by the UDP to create a formidable alliance that will contest against the incumbent”, i quote you.What specific efforts? What Gambians remember most is your resigning from NADD. Much is said about that. What efforts have you done since your party’s resignation from NADD? Specifically please, that will give us a clear understanding of the “efforts” you are trying for a formidable alliance as you say.I have had a meeting or two with Mr. Sallah between July- August 2006 and that was it. But I wrote letters and made some calls .The million dollar question, Ousainu, yep you are the biggest political party on the ground but what is proving it difficult for you to form an alliance with all the other opposition parties? Forget the NADD breakup, the haggles and disagreements, what is stopping you from inviting Halipha , OJ and Mai Fatty to come and rally behind the UDP to contest the elections 2011? Owning the biggest car on the road does not make all other vehicles invisible or redundant. What is stopping you from approaching Halipha, OJ and Mai Fatty to form a coalition against the APRC ?I appreciate the biggest car metaphor. The U.D.P has never written off any party or political party. We have never underestimated the importance of any political or party leader. I have not approached any political leader” to rally behind the U.D.P to contest the 2011 elections” but I have tried to talk to Mr. Sallah and Mr. Jallow. My efforts to meet Mr. Sallah did not bear fruits. I however succeeded meeting Mr. Jallow on a few occasions, some at his residence, others at mine and at least one on a neutral ground. We are still engaged. Mr. Jallow was very positive and I hope that the élan with which both of us are treating this important issue will be kept alive.As you know Mr. Fatty is still out of the country but we are in touch. My discussion with Mr. Jallow and Mr. Fatty is not to get them rally behind the U.D.P. Our discussions have focused on the need to have an alliance that is viable and robust to challenge and weed out Jammeh.Please elaborate on that. Did you ever call him? Went to him? Sent for him? Sent someone for him? You said you talked to OJ? About what? Halipha coming to you for some real talks or just some general talks that “the opposition should come together? You emphasized your attempts to meet with Hailpha were futile. How? What exactly frustrates you about Halipha? What do you want Halipha to Do? What will you tell him or convince him to do when you have a chance to sit with him?I remember trying Halifa on a Friday but could not reach him through his cell. I called Sidia Jatta who forwarded his home line. I called that line too but to no avail. I then asked Sidia to relay to Halipha that am trying to reach him so we can meet on Saturday or Sunday. I called back Sidia for the outcome and Sidia told me that Halipha said if it is regarding inter-party relations, then I can have that meeting with Sidia.Sidia was willing to meet but promised that I give him time hence they were busy at the public account meeting of the national assembly and could not meet that particular week but will get back to me as soon as those proceedings are over. And later Sidia said he is travelling to Wulli so we can meet when he gets back and I am still listening.Waiting to be contacted.Ousainu perceptions are very difficult to allay, wrong or right. UDP is seen as a very big rigid, unyielding, inflexible Mandinka party. It does not matter how many Fatou N’jies and Ya Kombeh Jobes you integrate or are representative of the UDP, How are you going to curb that perception or misconception?It is wrong and unfair to label the U.D.P as rigid, unyielding and inflexible Mandinka party. I will leave our detractors to go on with these false and misleading propagandas. I will not attempt to defend the non-ethnical composition and nature of the U. D. P.I would rather focus on the nation’s agenda (removal of Jammeh in 2011 elections) than addressing baseless allegations by people whose objections to the U. D. P is that its leader is Mandinka and ostensibly enjoys the support of Mandingos .Why is no one labeling the APRC as a Jola party in the face of a very strong opposition to other parties from the mainly Jola inhabited Foni?Ousainu, why is it difficult for you to say, hey Halipha, I respect and understand your mandate and the love and sacrifice you have for the Gambia, why not we put aside our differences, Please come behind UDP and let’s forge a way forward.?I do not have to assure Mr. Sallah that I do have respect for him. I assume he knows that I do. I appreciate the sacrifice and love that each of the political parties, Mr. Sallah included, has for The Gambia. It is in appreciation of this fact that I made efforts to meet him and put him in the know of what I think we should do for 2011 but my attempts proved futile. Notwithstanding my respect for him and appreciation of his love for Gambia , I must confess that I do not know what his mandate is. My attempt to meet him was not influenced by my knowledge of his mandate.Why can’t you tell Halipha , I need men of your caliber behind the UDP, I need the support and votes from your party. This is what Gambians expect and want us to do. Can we please come together because no matter how many votes we each get as individual parties, we’re still going to lose the elections if we contest apart? Why can’t you genuinely and sincerely approach Halipha, Mai and OJ?I assume that my response to your earlier question takes care of the matters raised in your 7th question.If Jammeh wins 50 percent or let’s even say 38 percent, you win 32 percent and PDOIS and GMC wins 30 percent, Jammeh still wins right? It does not matter the improvements on your votes, you vote divided, you lose big time even if Jammeh is at its least popular. And there is no sign of that. Would that not make it wise for you guys to just be cooperative and come together?No one can contest the validity of the scenario you have just painted. It is to avoid such a situation arising that I have engaged Mr. Jallow and Mr. Fatty in discussions. I hope that others will give us listening ear.Don’t you think the rigidity on the side of the opposition just frustrates and make Gambian voters lose faith in you all?The U.D.P has not been rigid on anything. We are willing to change our position on any issue if we are convinced.How is the UDP going to curb threats from the Jammeh regime come 2011? Kanyiba Kanyi is still missing, and Jammeh has just tried your muscle by sending a powerful and important person of the UDP, Femi Peters to jail, now about 6 months and you cannot do anything about it. How will you handle future threats as election nears?We would hope that there are no threats to the U.D.P in the run up to 2011 elections.Our handling on any future threat will be dependent on how the threat is carried out. You may note that the dictator is easing off on arrest and detention but resorting to the law courts to achieve his objectives. We see this trend repeated in the Femi peters case. I hope that the judiciary will not discredit itself by collaborating with Jammeh in suppressing the U. D. P or any other party, institution or individual.Don’t you think a united front will make it easier for you guys to collectively counter threats from Jammeh?I am not sure to what extent a united front will keep at bay Jammeh’s threats or ploys to frustrate the opposition in its 2011 campaigns. You may re-call the arrests, detention and what appears to me to be the mock arraignment of the NADD executive members before Justice Paul. There was then a united a front but that did not deter Jammeh in doing what he wanted to do. The criminal justice system seems to be the new weapon in Jammeh’s hands. I do not know to what extent united opposition will influence the decision to prosecute or not prosecute any political figure or a party militant on spurious accusations.You say that the criminal justice system seems to be the new weapon in Jammeh’s hands. And you worry that Jammeh goes to law courts now to achieve his objectives. As a lawyer you seem to obsess over the courts in dealing with Jammeh, but now that you realize that the very courts you rely on to argue the futility of certain cases, are now playing in Jammeh’s hands. The courts are the best place YOU KNOW AS A LAWYER. You agree now the dictator has the court in his hands. How do you curb that fear? So what is your next step especially with Femi Peters in jail? How do you get Femi out? What is the opposition doing about Femi Peters? What are the Gambian people doing about Femi peters and other UDP members in jail?Obviously when a dictator resorts to using methods he is not used to, the opponents had to devise ways to counter that too or curb the new situation. Not every judge in the judiciary is in the pockets of Yaya Jammeh, so we have to challenge him on the very terrain he is resorting to and I believe the Supreme Court is an appropriate forum. Although the process is time consuming but that is one of the options available. Well UDP is doing whatever is necessary at the courts to get Femi Peters out. We are doing it through the courts and through extra judicial means too. And when you say the opposition that implies us as a group of all opposition parties, but that is not happening hence we do not have a common forum where we can discuss matters regarding group decisions.For the Gambian people , a good question, well ordinary Gambians as usual are expressing dissatisfaction and discontent about Femi Peters and others but that ‘s about it. But Nothing elseI have seen you tirelessly representing and supporting Gambians in court, UDP members or not myself included. Gambians see you as a very intelligent, dedicated, loving and amicable person. Are you not already exhausted from all of this manhandling, mistreatment and haggling from the Yaya regime? Imagine you have Hamat Bah, Omar Jallow(OJ) , Mai Fatty Halipha Sallah, Sidea Jatta. Don’t you think that can only raise your profile collectively, and help you counter threats effectively, rather than you guys individually shooting in the air? Because we don’t need be to be rocket scientist to know that you cannot win the elections only with Hamat Bah’s NRP as an alliance?The main thrust of this question is on the need for a united opposition and I believe i have addressed this issue in my response to your earlier questions. I must however state that I am not exhausted from the effect of what Jammeh has been doing. I hope and wish that I do not get exhausted because if I reach that point, then I would sit back and re-think the utility of what I have been doing which may lead to me opting out a situation that has never crossed my mind.Mr Darboe If you guys are sincere about Gambia’s predicament as you all lament, why should it be this difficult and monumental for you guys to come together? It takes years and elections are here and still no word of a coalition. Gambians are not impressed neither do they want you guys to contest alone and don’t want to risk any surprises. Don’t you think that will just make the fickle voters to go along with Yaya Jammeh?Again just like your last preceding question, the main thrust of the question is on opposition unity. I have indicated the efforts and the response so far. Human beings are not like baskets that you can just grab and carry on your head. They must be willing to go along with you.“My efforts to meet Mr. Sallah did not bear fruits…………….”. ......"Human beings are not just like baskets that you just put on your head and carry along. They must be willing to come along". So the public assumption that you guys did not or do or have any meaningful discussion on the alliance is true? You still never had a one on one with Halipha?I had tried around February - March to meet Mr.Sallah. No I had no chance at all to meet Halipha. It was all futile and met with rejection by Mr. Sallah. We cannot have any meaningful discussions if we do not meet.Gambian women: how do you entice them with all this bling bling activities , endless festivals Jammeh have with our women, how are you going to convince Gambian women that flashing dalasi notes is not all that is to a party? They have a responsibility too.I cannot agree with you more. Gambian women have an enormous responsibility- the responsibility to take up their rightful position in society, the responsibility to build a country that offers a lot of opportunities to generations yet unborn. These festivals and dalasi flashing events only serve to temporarily distract women from the very serious issues confronting the nation. The election of women to various offices is testimony to our commitment to ensuring that women do participate in the running of the party as effectively as their male counterpart. A new national women’s executive has been selected and women coordinators selected for the electoral regions of The Gambia. I shall in the very near future be attending the inaugural meeting of this very important organ of the partyUDP has elected a lot of women as representatives to the party. That must be exciting for you. What are their plans for the party?The U. D. P realizes that women’s role in political should not be only that of entertainers and “ King Makers”. They are very important component in our political process. The U. D. P believes that women must be put in decision making. It is precisely because of this, that a number of women have been elected to serve as national officers of the partyYou know old age is sneaking on all of us fast, this 2011 elections might be your last chance to contest in any presidential elections in the Gambia . Why not make it the most memorable for generations of Gambians to come?There is no doubt that I am advancing in age. Your contention that 2011 might be my last chance to contest any presidential elections is premised on an assumption which may be rebutted by the results of 2011 elections. I think the burden lies on Gambian people to make the 2011 elections memorable for “generations of Gambians to come”.Your supporters can be very heavy handed, inflexible and outright brash and sometimes vulgar in all political discourse. I mean the ones on online forums. What word of advice or caution do you have for them because that will not help you in anyway?We believe in expressing our views with candor and honesty. We do not believe in dancing around issues. We believe in calling a spade a spade. Sometimes our views are considered” heavy handed “etc. when they are not coterminous with other views. I believe we have to look at these expressions of opinions objectively divorced from the personality of the individual whose opinion is being challenged. We do not as a party and will not subscribe to the use of vulgar language directed at any person. The U. D. P believes that its supporters must express their views on the running of their own party and other issues without being vulgar. Vulgarity is alien to U. D. P.I ask those genuine supporters of the U.D.P to engage in constructive discussion of issues and refrain from the use of vulgar language. We cannot do anything with those who pretend to be U. D. P supporters and engage in vulgarity with a desire of portraying the party and its supporters in bad lightMr. Darboe, this might be your last contest as president. You might soon retire from politics, looking back to this 2011 elections. Don’t you think this elections will be the only opportunity that you will look back and say “I did what Gambians expected of me, I have bend some rules to accommodate other parties and we pulled it off as a united front”. Does Mandela and Buthelezi ring a bell? Why do you want to miss that opportunity?I do not intend to retire from politics after 20111 elections. I will stay an active member of the party and be part of delegates that will attend congress at which the party elects its leaders. My continued participation in politics will not be dependent on my contesting for elective office; that will be rather selfish. A lot of well meaning people have as it were stuck it out with me as leader of U.D.P.Why should I, because of constitutional impediments not continue to participate in U.D.P politics and give all support to the new leader! I have never refused to work with any party. I have not promulgated any rules so there is no question of me bending rules. No opposition politician in The Gambia can with honesty accuse me of being non- accommodating. I have always been ready to listen to others outside U.D.P. That is the first step any accommodating person takes.I appreciate the reference to that icon and seminal thinker - Nelson Mandela-who should serve as a role model for present and future African politicians.Nelson Mandela however contested his only elections without pre- conditions from any member of his party or other parties in South Africa . I personally believe that there are politicians in Africa who aspire to have history place them in the same orbit as Mandela. And this can be achieved by various means.I will quote you “I have never refused to work with any party. I have not promulgated any rules, so there is no question of me bending rules . No Opposition politician in the Gambia can honestly accuse me of being non- accommodating. I have always been ready to listen to others outside UDP. That is the first accommodating step any one can take.” Mr Darboe it’s almost 4 yrs you are listening. Don’t you think if you guys are serious about an alliance you would have been at a different stage now further than just listening?Well my efforts show how serious I am about a coalition. I must say that every party has individuals responsible for the functioning of a party but I feel Halipha should not reject my calls to meet him. I feel i am not treated right, and I would not do that to my fellow politician of whatever rank. If we do not meet we cannot again have any meaningful discussion.Mr. Darboe, Gambians are very frustrated about this coalition thing and it is brewing that you guys should be completely abandoned and other venues sort, like a new political party or Independent candidate. Your take on that.Well any third party or Independent candidate is welcome. But remember the third party is going to get it’s pool of supporters from PDOIS, GMC, UDP, NRP. So that will not help the opposition confronting the current situation in the country. It is going to reduce numbers for the existing opposition parties and I don’t know how that can advance our cause. Even with the fragmentation caused by a new party, a certain percentage is still left with the existing opposition parties. I will not discard the idea for a wider range of choice for Presidency or at parliamentary level.Thank you and sorry for the delay during the interview.Thank you for your time too Mr. Darboe and sorry for nagging you all this time for answers and disrupting you frequently with your busy schedule.My pleasure.Thanks again Mr Ousainu for your time. Forgive me if am brash. I just want a very factual and candid interview for Maafanta readers, your fans, supporters and Gambians at large.Thank you for the interview. I appreciate your desire to be factual and candid. I hope I have been able to assist you achieve your objective. Ramadan Mubarak to all your readers.